Israeli directors Yuval Abraham and Rachel Szor, two of the four co-directors behind the 2025 Oscar-winning documentary “No Other Land,” are making waves at the Venice Film Festival with their new, impactful documentary, “NAZA.”
Filmed at night on Tel Aviv rooftops, “NAZA” delves into “the systems behind Israel’s calculated mass killing of Palestinian civilians in Gaza,” as described in its official synopsis. The film features startling interviews with 24 Israeli military intelligence officers and soldiers, all of whom participated anonymously. Their identities were digitally altered to protect them, as they discuss their involvement in the surveillance or remote killing of Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
The term “NAZA,” which frequently appears throughout the documentary, is an acronym used by Israeli intelligence to denote the expected number of civilian casualties in an airstrike.
“NAZA” holds the unique position of being the only documentary feature in this year’s Venice competition lineup. It’s produced by British newspaper The Guardian and James Wilson (JW Films), with Oscar-winner Jonathan Glazer, known for “The Zone of Interest,” serving as executive producer.
Abraham and Szor spoke with Popcorn Wire in Venice, detailing their process of providing an inside perspective on the Israeli military as it carried out actions that “all human rights organizations are saying is a genocide.”
The Genesis of a Secret Project
Popcorn Wire: Tell us about the origin of this project. Specifically, how did you gain access to the Israeli military personnel making these harrowing revelations?
Abraham: Rachel and I have always felt a responsibility to document what our country is doing to Palestinians. Our focus, in “No Other Land” as well, has been on what we view as systemic crimes—not isolated mistakes by soldiers, but fundamental aspects of how the Israeli government and army operate. After October 7, everyone witnessed the systemic bombing of Palestinians in Gaza, with daily reports of classrooms full of children being killed. The truth of this was evident from the start, as Palestinians documented their own destruction. As Israelis, we felt compelled to use our unique position and access to our own society, to people within the military, to examine this system from the inside as it carried out what human rights organizations are calling a genocide.
Popcorn Wire: How did you manage to find these 24 Israeli military intelligence officers and soldiers and convince them to speak out?
Abraham: It was incredibly challenging and took a significant amount of time. As an investigative journalist, I’ve spent years searching for sources within the Israeli system. This film builds on prior investigative reporting published by The Guardian, +972 Magazine, and Local Call, so I had an existing network of sources. It was a very tricky and difficult process, especially because we had to work in complete secrecy for three years. We operated under the assumption that the Israeli state, and perhaps other agencies, would try to prevent us from making the film.
The Systemic Nature of Civilian Casualties
Popcorn Wire: Of all the horrific accounts in the documentary, which do you consider most emblematic of what you describe as the systemic killing of Palestinians?
Szor: The film touches on various aspects: the use of AI to select targets, massacres at humanitarian food distribution sites, and the shooting of displaced individuals returning home. For me, as an Israeli, it was particularly important to hear about the deliberate choice to target Palestinians in their homes, often with their entire families. This is what gives the film its title, “NAZA,” which is how military officers refer to the anticipated number of civilians killed in a bombing. This understanding that it’s a systematic approach—the way Israeli intelligence maps houses—is intentional and a primary reason for the high number of civilian casualties.
Risks and Hopes for Impact
Popcorn Wire: The Israeli military personnel who spoke out have been disguised due to potential retaliation, including imprisonment. What about your own safety? Do you believe you’ll be able to continue living in Israel after this film’s release?
Abraham: We live there; our lives, families, and friends are there. Our sense of purpose is rooted in changing that place, ensuring these crimes—the genocide and the controlled occupation of Palestinians—end, and that a political solution leads to a good life for both Palestinians and Israelis. That’s our motivation. While you should ask the Israeli government, I see no reason why we shouldn’t be able to return. Ultimately, we are providing a platform for Israelis who believe they have important testimony about crimes they’ve committed, to share with the world and with other Israelis. I acknowledge the Israeli state could potentially retaliate, but I hope they don’t.
Popcorn Wire: Returning to the military officers’ testimonies, what’s your explanation for why they agreed to share such harrowing accounts?
Szor: We discussed this extensively and don’t have a complete answer. However, it emerges in their testimonies. Our primary interest was for them to describe what they did, but in doing so, they also reveal a bit about why they did it. I believe it’s partly because not many people ask Israelis to speak about these topics. Mainstream media in Israel largely avoids seeking these kinds of testimonies, leaving no space for such discussions. So, I think it’s because so many Israelis participated in what happened in Gaza, and few have asked them these questions. Still, I don’t have a definitive answer as to why they spoke.
Popcorn Wire: What kind of impact do you hope this film will have?
Abraham: I believe this film will make the denial of what occurred in Gaza—not just its genocidal nature, but the specifics of what it looked like from within the Israeli system—more difficult. We know there’s widespread denial, which I see as a factor contributing to the persistence of these crimes. Just this week, an 8-year-old girl, Wafaa Akila, was killed in Gaza with her father, and Israel bombed a school, killing a first grader. These incidents have been normalized by international media simply because Israel has been committing them daily for so long. While this continues, there’s a powerful, often sophisticated apparatus designed to deny, justify, or at least keep things ambiguous enough to suggest a “valid reason.” It’s shameful that this denial is happening. I believe the truth of the wars and crimes in Gaza should have been clear from day one by listening to Palestinians, who have described them repeatedly.
It’s precisely this global context, where countries in Europe—especially Germany and Italy—and the United States continue to provide Israel with unconditional military aid and diplomatic cover, that necessitates our approach. There is still so much denial that we felt we had to use our access to this system to provide testimonies from inside the Israeli military. I can’t say for certain it will have an effect, but I very much hope it will.
Popcorn Wire: Speaking of hope, do you think the October elections in Israel could bring about change?
Abraham: I want to be very clear about this: yes, there could be changes for Jewish Israelis, as Netanyahu’s government is extremely corrupt and has harmed democratic mechanisms for them. However, I don’t believe there’s a democracy if millions of people, like Palestinians in occupied territories, cannot vote. For Palestinians—and this is crucial for an international audience to understand—I don’t foresee any substantial changes. We had a “government of change” in 2022, and house demolitions and settler violence in the West Bank worsened. Their policies regarding Gaza were almost identical to the current government. This is important because I’ve often heard European countries, particularly Germany and Italy, and U.S. politicians, explain their reluctance to sanction Israel or use economic and diplomatic leverage by saying, “Oh, there’s going to be another government, and things will be OK.” Unfortunately, and I say this with a heavy heart, in terms of the continuation of the military occupation of Palestinians and policies in Gaza, there is an almost total consensus among the coalition and opposition in Israel. This is why we truly need international pressure. I hope this won’t be the case forever, and I hope for change. But currently, even parties considered Zionist leftist don’t discuss the killing of over 70,000 Palestinians in Gaza. This topic simply doesn’t surface in the Jewish Israeli political sphere, unfortunately.
Aesthetic Choices and Future Screening
Popcorn Wire: Let’s return to the film’s aesthetic and narrative. Discuss your decision to shoot these secret conversations on Tel Aviv rooftops at night and to minimize footage of Gaza.
Szor: To be honest, neither of us are formally trained filmmakers. However, after “No Other Land,” we recognized the power of filmmaking. We chose the rooftops for a few reasons. Cinematically, we knew the subjects needed to be disguised, so we felt something impactful needed to happen in the background. The idea of Tel Aviv was chosen because Israel’s main military headquarters are located there, and many of the intelligence officers we interviewed serve in that city. It’s also a setting where deep conversations naturally unfold, especially in the dark on a roof. As for minimizing Gaza footage until the end, there are several reasons. One is to highlight life in Tel Aviv, how people live just 60 kilometers from Gaza yet don’t truly see what’s happening. Of course, everything is documented; you can open your phone and see. But there’s something about this city that allows people to almost forget what’s happening so close by, even as orders are being made via computers from the city itself.
Abraham: We were also influenced by Jonathan Glazer, our executive producer, who spoke about his film “The Zone of Interest” and how the victims in that film are out of sight, but never out of mind.
Popcorn Wire: Is there any possibility this film could be shown in Israel?
Abraham: We truly hope so. It won’t be easy for numerous reasons, but for us, it’s incredibly important to show it in Israel, and we will do everything in our power to make that happen. I believe it’s a film Israelis should see. Israeli society needs to reckon with what the military and government did, and what so many people in society participated in. And we will try.
A still from “NAZA.”